A note from Geoff on Monday 24th July 2006

- The Ebay Auction

Grosvenor Cutlery Set
Ebay item #300008107712

Hi, and we are very happy purchase!!! - Thank You!!!
And I have just left Positive Feedback at Ebay

I do have a couple of "information questions" that I hope you can help me out with

Firstly, I am not sure of the "stainless v silver plated" description
During the auction, one of the bidders asked what the set was made from and you answered that it was silver plate
I have looked at all the pieces - all the forks and spoons are marked with "EPNS A1"
However, the knives are marked "Stainless"
Can you let me know what the difference is??

Secondly, we have made around a hundred purchases on Ebay, and most of them have been items from the 1950/60/70's
We like this era!!
With each item, we try to find out as much "history" as we can about it
Can you help out with any details??
We feel that knowing this makes the item more interesting - things like how old it is, who owned it or where did it come from, etc

Thirdly, there is a sticker on the back of the canteen stating that "this item has been marked for police identification"
I have stared at and examined every section!!! - but can't find any markings or engraving
Can you give any info on this also??

Thank you for your time, and we really hope you have the time to reply to our notes above
Regards, Geoff

(click on the above logo to go to their Official Web Site)

Hi, and my name is Geoff Roneberg - I live in Australia and all the contact details are below

My wife and I recently bought a cutlery set, and two photos are attached
One shows the complete set in it's box, and the other shows the markings on the knives and cutlery

This set was made by GROSVENOR
This cutlery is probably not worth "a million dollars"!! - but that does not really concern us
We just like it, especially the bone handles on the knives

What we are interested in, and what we would like more information on, is the markings on the pieces

Each of the twelve knives is marked as per the photo
Can you tell us the reason why "Firth-Brearley" may have been added to the Grosvenor name??

The forks and spoons are all marked as shown
What does this marking mean?? --- "Plate EPNS A1"

Also, would there be any particular reason why "Silver" cutlery would be in the same set as pieces that are marked "Stainless" - which I presume is steel??

Sharon and I have looked around the internet, and found bits of information - but some of it is very confusing to us "non-experts"!!

Finally, your web site was helpful to us - and we are going to follow the "Care Instructions" that are detailed there

Thank you for your time, and we hope that you are able to assist us with these questions
Regards, Geoff

Hi Geoff and Sharon

The term "Firth-Brearley" refers to the company that made the stainless steel for the blade
Harry Brearley was the inventor of stainless steel in 1913 in Sheffield
He actually worked for a company called "Firth Brown" - and hence the name
It is common practice, even today, to have blades of knives made from stainless steel in silver plated knife sets
Silver plated knives are not very good - hence the stainless blades

The term "EPNS A1" refers to the fact that the spoons and forks are silver plated
"EPNS" is Electro Plated Nickel Silver
'Electro plated' referring to the silver application process and 'Nickel Silver' referring to the metal from which the item is made
Nickel silver is basically brass with the addition of up to 10% nickel, which makes it harder and more wear resistant

The term "A1" is meant to mean the “best” in terms of the thickness of silver deposit
Unfortunately it was not a regulated or controlled mark so even the worst was marked "A1" so it is really a meaningless term

Hope this helps
With best regards

Roger C Hamby
Director of Research
CATRA
The Worlds Cutting Technology Organisation
Henry Street, Sheffield S3 7 EQ United Kingdom
Tel +44(0) 114 276 9736 - email hamby@catra.org

Notes from the internet #01
I get the impression (wrongly or rightly, maybe someone will say which is true) that various companies might have used "Firth Brearley" stainless steel to manufacture their knives
I have just been reading a small extract from a booklet called 'The Cutlery Industry' by Peter Smithurst which leads me to think this, especially in the early days after it's invention by Harry Brearley at Thomas Firth and Sons in 1913
These are the extracts:-
A - Many cutlers tried to use it (Stainless Steel) and failed and Brearley was dubbed 'the inventor of knives that won't cut'
But he persevered and by the 1920's stainless cutlery began to appear on the market and the days of ordinary carbon steel were numbered
B - If you have a knife marked "Double Shear" or "Warranted Cast Steel" or 'Firth Brearley Stainless", it represents a milestone in metallurgical history and in the development of the skills of the craftsmen who made it

Notes from the internet #02
By the age of twenty Harry Brearley left England for Russia to manage Firth's steel plant in Riga
He returned to Sheffield in 1907 to manage Brown Firth Research Laboratory; a joint venture between two of Sheffield's leading steel companies
Harry Brearley was working on a military project in 1912 when he discovered the new stainless steel

Notes from the internet #03
One of the major developments in this period (20th century) was the invention by Harry Brearley of stainless steel
At first this steel was slow to replace crucible and shear steel for table knife blades and other cutlery, but became more widely used after the First World War when many blades were marked "Firth Brearley" and "Firth Stainless"

Notes from the internet #04
Most silver plated cutlery and hollow ware is marked "EPNS" - the abbreviation for "Electro-Plated Nickel-Silver"
"Nickel-Silver" identifies the base metal as a copper-zinc-nickel alloy
It contains no silver but, because its nickel content imparts a colour more akin to silver than brass, it has always been known as Nickel-Silver"
"Electro-Plated" in this context means that the articles are electro-plated with silver - the first metal to be used extensively in electro-plating
In many countries including the United States, nickel silver is not used, but brass is used instead

Notes from the internet #05
EPNS A1 = Electro Plated Nickel Silver - A1 - Highest Grade (......but bear in mind the comment from Roger Hamby above)

Other - - Auctions
......for "price comparisons"

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